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Ben Dribus
12/20/2009 01:31 AM
Thomas,
I meant to respond to your posts yesterday, but have been snowed under by work.
I was planning to post a list of youtube videos of Glenn Beck to try to help explain why I believe him to be dishonest and an enemy of Christian conservatives, and perhaps I will do so at some point. In any case, I'm sure you're as capable a researcher as I, and information about Beck's behavior during election 2008 is all over the web. You mentioned that he seems to be driven by his family and faith, not big business, and I agree. He SEEMS to. But he supported the quintessential candidate of big business in the 2008 election and trashed the quintessential candidate of family and faith. I put more stock in his actions than his words.
Also, you know what Fox's agenda is, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they hired him and promote him so much at this particular time.
Anyway, there is much more to say about this, but I'd be willing to bet that we will all come to similar conclusions about it eventually. I would prefer if we came to these conclusions sooner rather than later, but one must have patience.
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Ben Dribus
12/17/2009 08:13 PM
Ron and Dottie,
My last post was too strongly worded. I hope you'll accept my apology. We all should be here to learn.
Thomas,
As usual, your posts contain a wealth of thought and information. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have time to get back to you.
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Ron and Dottie in Fl
12/17/2009 01:44 PM
Doctor David, Thanks for letting me, the review of the book, wasn't yours. I began to wonder when you addressed Bonnie with the same message. in any case I am going to reread the book, just to see what I missed the first time.
Thomas, I appreciate you taking the time to give us some history on Mormon religion and Glenn Beck and a little of where Mike Huckabee fit into the conversation, during to 2008 Primaries. It is so easy for the media to take statements out of context, especially as you say 4 or 5 hours of conversation over a multiple day period. I remember the part are Jesus and the Devil brothers? I just want to say thanks for filling in the part about Glenn Beck.
Ben, I am not erasing anything from the 2008 primaries, that was real time history which we became a big part of. That is the first time I have ever waved signs, helped out, and made phone calls and kept alert to everything that was going on. I think I even read every comment made on MikeHuckabee.com. I was more upset with the Republican Party and the people running the debates and Washington State where they just quit counting the votes.
I still don't watch or listen to Hannity as much as I did during the President Bush Years.
I didn't know that much about Glenn Beck back then. I don't remember Glenn Beck being included in the Book 'Doing The Right Thing'.
I am just looking at 2010 being a New Time when I will be working with Huckpac, joining the Tea Parties, Fair Tax Rallys, keep up with Mike Huckabee, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin and others I can learn from and respect.I hope I don't come across as shouting, I am simply trying to stay in the conversations and learn from all that make comments on Huckpac.
Ron
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Dr. David
12/17/2009 11:57 AM
Donlon, Thomas 12/16/2009 09:29 PM. Here is how it works with Vitamin D (and every other real advance ever made).
First, they tell you that you're crazy.
Then, they tell you that you're wrong.
Then, they tell you that they didn't understand what you meant.
Then, they tell you that they knew it the whole time. -
Dr. David
12/16/2009 10:05 PM
Captain Obvious 12/16/2009 09:52 AM. I think you can tell a lot about the strength of an argument by how it is offered. Those who know what they are talking about tend to be calm and organized in their manner of expression. Those who don't know what they're talking about tend to loud and shrill. In the long run, a clanging gong, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing, always loses out.
Because it lacks love.
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Donlon, Thomas
12/16/2009 09:29 PM
I think I finally figured out why I like both Mike Huckabee and Glenn Beck.
As Mike Huckabee regularly points out so much of what is political discourse is discussing "Who is up and who is down".
Glenn Beck at least tries to get at the heart of problems and looks down the road as best he can. Rather than being driven by concern for big business Glenn Beck seems to be highly influenced by his family and his faith. It isn't a peculiar or strange belief system that is the main pull for him into the Mormon faith. He rather talks about "lighthouses" within his faith that inspire him to want to be better. Now, some Mormons are also sometimes rightly critizing Beck for making excessive comments. And Glenn Beck is off the mark and wrong from time to time - probably more than I realize.
I've watched a week and a half of his TV shows over the last four days. I never got deeply into his book Arguing With Idiots but I found the little that I read informative.
Anyways, maybe the best thing I can and probably should do now, is start informing people of the need for vitamin d. While people debate endlessly on whether health care reform will cost lives or save lives - I should be shedding light on the necessary health properties of vitamin d.
It sounds excessive to point out how important this vitamin is. It starts sounding like snake oil - but there are so many scientifically proven benefits that have just been discovered the last few years. Everyone has heard about it - at least a little. Katie Couric has done a segment on vitamin d. Brian Williams has done a segment on it. Mike Huckabee mentioned it in his book and radio program. Pat Robertson's network once did a segment on vitamin d. But people forget if they only hear about it once.
However, there is no drug company that can patent vitamin d. Drugs with only marginal helpfulness get advertised on TV. But Vitamin D which is much more helpful isn't advertised.
I'll probably take a break again from this site - there is a lot I should do.
Here is a recommended range of dosages for Vitamin D.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtmlI even hope Glenn Beck reads this and gets the right amount of vitamin d - and protects his brain, heart and muscles from further deterioration. (Just playing with you Glenn - but I'm serious stay healthy.)
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Donlon, Thomas
12/16/2009 07:44 PM
It appears that I (as I guess many others did) didn't get an accurate quote regarding Mike and the Mormon controversy. It appears that this was a 4-5 hour conversation over several days. Mike apparently directly answered that Mormonism was a religion. Maybe a bit of Mike's curiosity got him to ask the question to the religion expert talking with Mike.
So if Glenn Beck thinks that Mike was trying to prove that Mormonism is a cult - it isn't true. Mike said it wasn't - but was a religion. Mike may have just been asking about one of the odd peculiarities of Mormon beliefs that stuck in his head.
In any case, when it comes to his own religion Glenn Beck can ask himself if he believes that is OK to "Question with boldness". Mike has the right to ask a question out of curiosity. Glenn Beck has no right to be incensed over it.
This context is much better and puts Mike in a better light.
==================================
" Chafets told Politico: “I asked him the question about Mormonism and whether he thought it was a religion or a cult.“He said it was a religion, and didn’t know much about it. There was a pause. Then he asked his question,” Chafets continued.
“...It was on the wires and picked up by candidates, and I can’t be accountable for that,” Chafets said, adding, “I hope that the article, as I wrote it, was entirely in context.”
...
Then the Governor asked more questions and they had a mini-conversation about Mormonism.
This is how the article presents the story:
I was about to jot down this piece of boilerplate when Huckabee surprised me with a question of his own: ‘‘Don’t Mormons,’’ he asked in an innocent voice, ‘‘believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?’’
It obviously wasn't a rhetorical question. ... Remember that this interview was a 4 to 5 hour conversation over a period of a couple days, so it was not a typical 10 minute interview.
===================================
For a fuller context (I edited for space and clarity from the following link.) click on the link to the blog. NOTE: CNN may have disallowed the YouTube explanation to be used on this site.http://evang4mike.blogspot.com/2007/12/huckabees-mormonism-comment-dont-they.html
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Donlon, Thomas
12/16/2009 06:42 PM
Hi Ben,
This whole worrying about Glenn Beck reminds me of a scripture.
Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 Do not pay attention to every word people say, or you may hear your servant cursing you--for you know in your heart that many times you yourself have cursed others.
I think at least in part, Glenn Beck's problem with Mike Huckabee resembles this.
James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
I know I've been critical of Mike Huckabee for things that I wouldn't really pay attention to if he was someone else.
Now, for some background from my recollection of why Glenn Beck was so angry with Mike Huckabee. Someone asked Mike if he thought Mormons were a cult. (Now from Mike's background as a Pastor he answered with a theological response - bringing up an error in Mormon theology). However, people that aren't really religious have a more social definition of cult. Their definition is more one of people taking total control over peoples' lives and using people for the purpose of the group. Opinions vary on what is a cult. Glenn Beck urged Mike Huckabee to have a meeting with the Mormon church for the purpose of reconciliation. Mike did not want to go down that route and Glenn Beck became furious.
Perhaps Mike was looking at this politically. I am guessing that Mike felt there was little to gain from such a meeting. The Mormons probably would have still largely supported Romney. (I know Mormons is not the way those in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints call themselves - but for brevity It's "Mormons"). Maybe Mike felt that the Mormon church would have used a reconciliation to advance Romney. Or maybe Mike didn't want to lose some support of some extremist Christians who don't think people should greet people of wrong views.
In this post I expressed that I have disagreements with Mormon theology - and I have disagreements with the theology of some Christian churches too. A long time ago I shared that I strongly believe that Billy Graham and C. S. Lewis and the Roman Catholic Church have a more fair view towards those who do not have a Christian background and have a Christian faith.
But, while I disagree with large portions of Mormon history and theology - I greatly respect that they often live highly respectable lives, with conduct better than that of many in other faiths.
Glenn Beck also has little concern for the social issues of gay marriage and abortion. This may also make him uneasy with Mike.
Ben, you accurately summarized my thoughts about another poster here who keeps changing monikers everytime he is banned. He is trying as much as possible to make Mike into a one-dimensional candidate, loathsome to everyone who doesn't share a focus on two Christian hot-button issues.
Glenn Beck is a great man. Mike Huckabee has greatness too. Does that mean that either of them don't have faults? No. Only God is perfect.
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Ben Dribus
12/16/2009 05:05 PM
Ron and Dottie,
That's crazy. It's when a person is "in no condition to be talking on camera" that you get his true thoughts, instead of the script.
And if Glenn Beck is so easily "decieved by the media," why listen to him? He will merely repeat whatever the media loads him up with.
Saying that we need to look at 2010 and get over what happened in 2008 is like saying we need to forget everything we learned in school because it is in the past. Two plus two were four back in 2008 and will still be four in 2012.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Like the watchman in Ezekiel, all a person can do is put out the warning. My only desire is that the day does not come when you recall with sorrow how much others around you on whom you may have influence drank from a poisoned well when you had access to the information that could have prevented it.
Most people have no way of knowing what Beck and similar spokesmen really are. If those who are given the information look the other way and make excuses for him because they like what he says, we are doomed.
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Dr. David
12/16/2009 04:30 PM
Ron and Dottie in Fl 12/16/2009 01:14 PM. Ron, I want to be sure you understand I did not write that review of Beck's book. (I believe it was written by an Englishman, as I Americanized a few words of his spelling.)
Regardless of what is in Beck's book, I do agree with the reviewer that the tendency of some to make politics into a life or death struggle between the "good guys" and the "bad guys" assumes that the listening audience is a bunch of idiots.
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Ron and Dottie in Fl
12/16/2009 01:14 PM
To Ben, Deborah, and Doctor David,
Ben, I viewed the youTube clip of Glenn Beck, talking to someone (don't know who) about Mike Huckabee. Glenn appeared to be in no condition to be talking on camera. I do remember how Romney was out spending Huckabee 10 to 1 and Mike Huckabee used the media to his advantange several times to communicate with the people, without paying a dime. The smart politicing used by Mike Huckabee, drove the Romney supporters nuts. I guess Glenn Beck was one of them (it appeared the video was from Jan 2008). Currently I can not hold this against Glenn Beck, the media was twisting and turning ads and comments. This was close to the same time when Mike Huckabee said a few comments about Mormonisn that got turned around by the media and I believe Mike even wound up apoligizing to Romney. There was negative ads coming from both Campaigns, where the candidate probably did not approve the ad. We need to look at 2010 and get over what happened in early 2008.
To Deborah,
When I suggested cutting back on spending. What I meant to say is the funds (foreign aid) that is going to other countries. Start the first year cut back a 1/4 the amount, each year until we get it under control. It appears the UN wants the US to give an additional 1 or even 2 percent of the GDP. How can a country 12 Trillion in debt continue to take on even more debt just because. It is ok for the private sector to help other countries.
Doctor David, I read over your comments and will need to read them again. I am in the process of rereading the book, I am only on page 8. While reading I will think about your comments.
I don't look at people as idiots, but I do want to expand my mind set to think about some of the things that are going on in America. The first time I read the book, I liked the way it was layed out. I try to take the positives from what I read and hear. I am not to good at being critical, but I do know if I like or disagree with what I am reading / hearing / seeing.
A simple case is watching our Congressional leaders do their 1 minute or longer talks. I would like it better is these people took the time for open debate, but I guess that is not the procedure. There is so much that is said and is not challenged. Sometimes I think this is idiotic.
I appreciate the fact that you write thoughts that go below the surface, and create the need for activating the thought process.
I will let you know what I come up with after going through my thought process. Give me a week.I an still going to keep up with Mike Huckabee, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Tea Parties, Fair Tax, C-Span, and everything else that I come in contact with. No Political Correctness.
Merry, Safe and Simple Christmas
From Ron and DottieRon
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Dr. David
12/16/2009 11:32 AM
Judge Deborah 12/15/2009 07:43 PM. I didn't write the review on Beck's book, Deborah. It was copied from the Amazon website, where it had been listed as the "most helpful critical review".
Regarding the separation of Church and State, I think that is an easy one. Several of the Founding Fathers were, as you say, devout Christians. However, the ancestors of the Founding Fathers had escaped religious persecution in England and elsewhere. The Founding Fathers knew they did not want to establish any government-sanctioned Church in America, because of the experience of their forefathers. So they wrote the Constitution to make it clear that the government will never be able to tell us what our religious preference should be. You may know that President Washington made a special visit to the Jews in New England to assure them that they were as protected by the Constitution as everyone else. This is what is meant by separation of Church and State.
Any other interpretation is smoke and mirrors.
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Captain Obvious
12/16/2009 09:52 AM
Doctor David,
Re: your post to Ron and Dottie.
I think the review you posted is spot on. Having bought the book, I don't know what to do with the dern thing. Don't want to donate it to Salvation Army--don't want to display it on my shelves with Huckabee's books fer sure...
We need thinking people--a la Huckabee--rather than Becks and Coulters and their ilk. Our culture has lost the civility necessary for a true exchange of ideas, I fear.
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Ben Dribus
12/15/2009 09:54 PM
Ron and Dottie,
I'll see if I can borrow a copy of "Arguing with Idiots," since several people I respect have suggested it to me.
But if I can't borrow one, it's too bad; Glenn Beck isn't getting a dime of my money!
And I don't think I can bear to read "Going Rogue."
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Judge Deborah
12/15/2009 07:43 PM
Ron: I saw Glen Beck's book "Arguing With Idiots" but I haven't had a chance to pick up a copy yet. Looks interesting!
The only way to get career politicians on either side of the aisle to hear us is to vote 'em all out and get all freshmen there!
Doctor David: I heartily have to challenge you on the separation of religion and politics.
You must have fallen for that famous myth of the "separation of church and state."
Gov. Huckabee had David Barton of WallBuilders on his show to explain how our Founding Fathers quoted Scriptures frequently, had church right at the White House and Capitol, and how our Declaration of Independence and our who jurisprudence system was constructed with the Bible and biblical principles as a firm basis.
Without moral principles, our complete justice system breaks down and becomes merely relativism. All laws are meaningless if they are simply a matter of secular humanism. At that point Darwinism, which is senseless, evidenceless, and ridiculous sounds reasonable.
All Glen Beck means is that we've got the largest administration full of bullies that we've ever had. If that isn't scary, I don't know what is! Learning tolerance and diversity won't get us out of this mess of dictators!
Ron: I heartily agree we need to cut the Federal Budget in half! And then half it again! The Fair Tax is the ONLY way out of the fiscal nightmare we're being subjected to. How many millions have to lose their jobs before they kick this inexperienced lawyer out on his can?
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Dr. David
12/15/2009 03:10 PM
Ron and Dottie 12/14/2009 11:31 pm. I have copied below most of a review of the book "Arguing with Idiots" by Glenn Beck. I would appreciate your candid opinion of this review.
What this book...quite clearly... shows (are) the symptoms of the illness...which presently ravage American politics.
The first problem is the retreat to extremism in American political discourse - which, to be clear, includes both left and right - which is disturbing, and on occasion calls to mind the ideological struggles in Europe of the 1930s (which, of course, the mocking cover chillingly evokes). America is presently caught in an age of extremes, at least as far as the rhetoric is concerned. It is, frankly, mind-boggling that a politician can be abused as a "communist" and a "fascist" at the same time. This belies a total lack of understanding of either term. Use of such divisive labels obscures the fact that the various factions in America in fact share much common ground, and share the same values on any number of issues. This need to present an "us v them" society and to treat politics as if it were a football game with two implacably opposed teams, might sell books, but in truth it only divides and weakens the country. Is that what you want?
The second problem is the co-opting of religious arguments to try and resolve political issues. The American Constitution - the product of intelligent enlightment minds - carefully separates the political from the spiritual, and with good reason. Invoking God is merely an attempt... to abrogate personal responsibility for one's own choices; it is the ultimate retreat of the intellectually lazy. It also provides an unfortunate comparison with the sorts of theocratic regimes abroad of which the United States - and the majority of the rest of the world - is rightly critical. There is no opposition between religion and politics, but they are not, and must not be, identical.
The third problem is parochialism. The US remains a super-power. It is still associated with the qualities of tolerance and opportunity, and the US remains one of the most diverse countries in the world (even if its diversity is sometimes as imperfect as it is anywhere else). Yet the political discussion - if we wish to dignify what sometimes is little more than name-calling with that label - rarely transcends the playground and rarely looks beyond the tip of its own nose. The Coulters and Frankens, the Foxes and the MSNBCs, all share a terrible burden for that. America is a global player, not that one would think that from its printed and broadcast press. This obsession with meaningless detail (whether we should call someone in public office a "Czar", who wore a flag pin and who didn't, what a group of unqualified but syndicated people said on an obviously partisan news channel discussion) is the worst kind of trivialization of political debate. The fact is that most of today's American politicians and alleged "thinkers" will never produce the Federalist Papers, and lack the wit to write Common Sense or Walden.
These authors have made their money. They have had their fun. It is time to wake up. The vice of books like this is that they create the impression that your neighbor is your hated enemy, that your family members with whom you disagree are "idiots". They are not. They just don't share all of your views. The vituperative language of these books stifles and stunts debate and the exchange of ideas. The sooner America is roused from this illness, the better it will be for America, and the world at large. I fear many who read this book will simply pour the "thoughts" of Beck, and others left and right, into the political void in their heads.
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Ron and Dottie in Fl
12/15/2009 02:15 PM
To Deborah,
Thanks for the comments. Time is really flying by. Are you in your 2nd term as Club President. I was just nominated a 2nd Term for Club Scheduler. Toastmasters does keep you busy, but the encouragement you get every step / every aspect of the way is a blessing. I am glad Doctor David cares enough about us and Huckpac that joins us and encourages sharing of information and debate. I will put my John Henry at the end from now on.
I really would like us to drop the past election cycle and pick up fresh with 2010. All is fair in Love, War and Politics.
i would like to see real debate this time. With real debate we can make the Party stronger. Last election cycle it was almost as if they didn't care. The Fair Tax needs to come up for debate as well.I am rereading Arguing with Idiots by Glenn Beck since I suggested for others to read it, so I could get their views.
Our Republican Congressmen need to stop with the pork and discourage the Democrats from doing it. The role models are few and far between in Congress and the Administration.
Ron
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Ben Dribus
12/15/2009 11:47 AM
Ron and Dottie,
Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KdJ0D_aiVA
(WARNING: this video is full of lies!)
There is much more. Google "huckabee romney beck" or "huckabee beck devil."
This stuff is not hard to find.
Beck has a deep hatred of Mike Huckabee.
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Judge Deborah
12/15/2009 08:28 AM
Ron & Dottie,
I really enjoy your thoughtful comments, because you see beneath the surface issues, and try to evaluate and understand all sides of an issue, not just the obvious.
So instead of regurgitating the same dried up rhetoric about Fox News being a tool of big money special interests groups, you look beyond and see how Gov. Huckabee may be the next Ronnie Reagan in that they both were pro-life, had great faith, and learned vital speaking skills when they were involved in radio broadcasting.
Fox News and CNN both have sponsors who to some extent control their agenda.
But we know that God's hand is on Mike Huckabee as it was on Ronnie Reagan. Ronnie Reagan was like the "Knute Rockne" of Communications & Mike Huckabee is like the "Paul Harvey" of modern day communications. All of them had the ability to inspire great audiences and bring people together who had little commonality and get them working together in causes that were bigger than themselves.
By the way, when you talk about Toastmasters, I know it's Ron talking and I suspect that most of the comments are his unless Dottie identifies herself.
We have something in common, as I joined Toastmasters just 3 years ago and am a Spring Chicken who is already President of my club and learning a lot about leadership. That's real Trial by Fire!
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Ron and Dottie in Fl
12/14/2009 11:31 PM
To Doctor David and Ben,
Doctor David, Thanks for the advice / comments / feed back. I agree, most of us do share a lot of the same Conservative Values and we would like to maintain our Freedom of choice, be responsible, be successful and be happy. I like the way you worded it. Just to let you know Dottie has written less than 1 percent of the comments, but she appears to agree with a lot of what I have written.
Ron
To Ben,
I never saw any of the following about what Glenn Beck did / said during the primaries:From Ben Dribus
12/14/2009 04:00 PM
Now he had changed to foaming at the mouth, making false accusations and comparing Mike to the devil. None of the facts about Mike Huckabee had changed. What had changed was that now he might actually win, and those who had paid lip service to his ideals before were desperate to stop him. I had to know why.
endI did hear a lot about Romney's link to communication business ties. I even heard Hannity and Romney think it was funny, many of us believed it.
If Mike Huckabee can be on Hannity shows, I don't see why he can't be a guest on the Glenn Beck show. Glenn Beck couldn't have been any worse than what Hannity was. I do know Hannity did give Mike Huckabee air time though.
I still wish you would read "Arguing With Idiots" and perhaps "The Christmas Sweater" and let me know what you think. Thanks for taking the time to give a summary of your political life and some of the insights you have gained and experienced. Thanks for sharing and contributing.
Ron
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Ben Dribus
12/14/2009 04:00 PM
Ron and Dottie,
Thanks for the response. Since you shared a little of your political history, let me share a little of mine. Perhaps that will help clarify my point of view.
My parents are conservative republicans. I grew up vaguely thinking that "democrat politicians are bad and republican politicians are good," in the sense that I believed the democratic party to be corrupt and mainly interested in trading handouts for votes, while I thought that the republican party was mostly patriotic and based on personal responsibility. I voted for Bush, but became increasingly dismayed with what republicans did while in power. They spent just like the democrats had, and did nothing about certain social issues (abortion, etc.) that are important to me. Their policies seemed designed to allow the very wealthy to abuse and control the system.
2008 was the first year in which I paid attention to national politics in detail. Early on, I was interested in Mitt Romney because he had a reputation as a problem-solver. I quickly changed my view of him when I discovered his history of dishonest, amoral pragmatism. Then I began to view Mike Huckabee as a serious candidate. I already respected him because our family had been among the many he helped as Arkansas governor when we were displaced by hurricane Katrina.
I expected the republican establishment to embrace Huckabee when he began to rise in the polls. After all, he stood for everything they claimed to uphold. When their vicious assault on him began, I knew that my basic view of their true motivations was in error. Particularly striking was the change in their behavior as he became a viable contender. Commentators who had praised him in the past (Hannity, etc.) began a relentless onslaught of lies and negative propoganda. One of Mike's most well-loved early interviews (before the Huckaboom) was by Glenn Beck. Beck was friendly and civil in that interview. Now he had changed to foaming at the mouth, making false accusations and comparing Mike to the devil. None of the facts about Mike Huckabee had changed. What had changed was that now he might actually win, and those who had paid lip service to his ideals before were desperate to stop him. I had to know why.
I gradually discovered the financial connections between Fox News, Clear Channel Communications(Limbaugh, Levin, Hannity, Coulter, Ingraham, Beck, etc.) and Romney. I discovered the connections between Giuliani and the executives of Fox News. I learned about the Club for Growth and its wealthy contributors, who circumvented campaign finance law by donating hundreds of thousands apiece to the Club to fund vicious and false attack ads against Mike Huckabee.
I also discovered Huckabee's previous statements that he was not a Wall Street conservative, and everything clicked. It's all about the money. Giuliani and Romney would maintain the control of the republican party by amoral financial interests, while ignoring social conservatives, who those financial interests hold in contempt. Hence Fox and company supported them.
I realized that there are at least TWO major power centers in this country that want to redistribute (steal!) wealth. One controls the democratic party and seeks to redistribute my means of government. The other controls the republican party and seeks to redistribute my means of Wall Street. Caught in the middle is working America, and both sides despise us more than they despise each other.
When the economy collapsed, the "economic conservatives" such as Romney gladly advocated the bailout, against their stated principles. They don't care about conservative ideals, they care about who gets the money.
People would never tolerate this if they knew the truth. Therefore, it is of paramount importance for both the government redistributors and the Wall Street redistributors to keep everyone frantically fearful and angry at one side or the other, and fiercely loyal to the opposite side. Instruments such as Beck tell us what we want to hear until there is any danger of a true reformer (e.g. Mike Huckabee) being elected, then viciously turn and support candidates who are the opposite of everything they claim to stand for. There are similar instruments on the left.
Sarah Palin is the latest tool. She is a strongly polarizing figure who inspires hatred among liberals and many moderates and fierce, unreasoning loyalty among uninformed conservatives. Her promotion by the media is no accident, and they will turn on her again when she has served her purpose.
That's how I see it.
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Dr. David
12/14/2009 12:01 PM
Ron and Dottie in Fl 12/13/2009 11:57 AM. I think we're all here to help each other learn as much as possible, so we can make the wisest possible decisions about who and what to support in these difficult days for America. Each of us has a unique point of view which adds a valuable perspective to the discussion. Obviously, since we all find Governor Huckabee's philosophy congenial, the differences between us may not be as great as they sometimes appear. But it is still good to think it through together.
The only thing I would ask of you is that you sign Ron or Dottie at the end of each of your messages, so we know which of you it is from. Come to think of it, that will double your influence on our group!
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Ron and Dottie in Fl
12/13/2009 02:33 PM
To Donlon, Thomas
12/13/2009 09:49 AMThanks for chiming in. I am waiting to see the last response I made. I did not have a chance to look it over, since Dottie called me from the computer. I just wanted to say thanks and for comments the expressed by Thomas.
I often wonder why the Republican Party, Heritage Foundation and other so called Conservative groups don't get behind the Fair Tax. The only reasons I can think is they are beholden to a higher influence or they don't want to give any credit to people like Mike Huckabee.
It is my opinion there appears to be a turf war between Conservative talk show hosts. The Conservatives who want to hold on to our Liberties and Freedoms need to return to their 9/12 mind set and unite to get / support the best candidates in 2010. Encourage one another to "Do The Right Thing" to make 2010 a good year for Conservatives.
Tea Party web sites do have a link to FairTax.org. FairTaxNation.com is looking for more members and it is easy to make comments there.
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Ben Dribus
12/13/2009 01:01 PM
Thomas,
My assessment of Glenn Beck (that he is primarily a tool of big-money interests) is an educated guess, but I think there is a lot of evidence to support it.
I would like to repeat verbatim Doctor David's remark, "I believe we must distinguish between the man, those who give him a platform to speak, and what he says."
Whenever I watch his show, I find myself chuckling at his antics and marvelling at his skill and creativity. I also agree with much (maybe 80%?) of what he says. If I knew nothing about him except for what I could have learned by watching his show over the last few months, I might be a major fan of his.
But I DO know more about him. Moreover, I know about "those who give him a platform to speak," namely Fox News. Yes, they give Mike Huckabee a platform to speak as well, but a third-rate platform that I believe was calculated to marginalize him. I believe the Fox executives are truly perplexed at Mike's success.
Beck, however, is the chosen instrument of Fox to rope in conservative independents and the tea-party crowd. I think this is no coincidence after his vicious, slanderous opposition to Mike Huckabee during the 2008 election.
Also, Beck's previous support of Romney unmasks him. Despite having the same religion, Romney's status as an insider and obvious representative of Wall Street should have made him anathema to Beck if he really believes what he says. Thus, I consider Beck's independent, man-of-the-people angle an act, albeit a masterful one.
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Ron and Dottie in Fl
12/13/2009 11:57 AM
To Ben and Doctor David,
Thank you for responding to my comments. I just trying to understand, even if it is a little at a time. So please bare with me. I even joined a Toastmasters club 2 years ago to help me with my communication, listening, leadership skillis, everything else I am able to learn from the Toastmasters experience. I welcome constructive criticism.
At the very beginning of the election cycle I was looking for a candidate who represented(stood up for) conservative values and supported the Fair Tax. It appeared Fred Thompson was who I (Ron) liked in the beginning, Fred could sell a bill of goods. Later when I went out on the Presidential score card on FairTax.org, I learned different. At that point, I looked for another candidate who did appear to be a man of his word, and have been following him every inch of the way. If Mike Huckabee was here or on TV, internet, radio, I was there. I have never been this involved. From what I understand this Presidential Primary was unique.
I am still trying to understand the Republican Party. I have even written and called to here directly why they did some thing the way they did. I got through one time to learn they the RNC did not get involved until the Republican Convention. I could never get through to the people running the Republican Party. I just get letters and surveys in the mail, which I have been ignoring for a long time. I did spend 3 days writing comments to the one 52 question survey and wrote at the end in areal comment box, if you reply back I will pledge 100 dollars. I put it on the envelop and in the are close to the donation box. It was really a waste of my time and a loss to a cause.
The first time I really paid any attention to Glenn Beck is when he offered to help with the McCain / Palin campaign against Obama / Biden. Senator McCain pretty much ran him off (and asked for a public apology) when Glenn Beck called Obama Barrack Hussein Obama. I didn't see anything wrong with it.
I did not like the preferential treatment that Mitt Romney was receiving and how Sean Hannity was was putting him on a pedestal, while at the same time making mike Huckabee out to be more liberal, when in fact I believed the opposite to be true. As much as Hannity questioned Huckabee during the primaries, they seem to have set aside their differences, since then. Time will tell. Ann Coulter was even worse than Hannity along those lines. She left me in the dust and I really don't understand the way she writes and seldom read or try to understand her columns.
I guess I missed what Glenn Beck has said about Mike Huckabee. I lost track of when I started following and listening to Glenn Beck. I ask that you read Glenn Becks book "Arguing With Idiots" and "The Christmas Sweater". The first one made me think of the Fair Tax, when I was reading it. Then let me know what you think.
Sarah Palin was pulled into the Campaigning by Senator McCain, she did it as a call to duty. Sarah Palin is the only reason McCain did as well as he did against Obama, in my opinion. the mainstream medias objective was to discredit the Republican Candidates no matter who they were. I believe it left some bruises on Sarah Palin, but she fought off the attacks and is probably a stronger woman because of it. I wrote many comments to McCain before and after the Texas / Ohio primaries. I have grown to respect Palin more than I do McCain. Just a gut feeling from observing.
The Republicans did not know what to do with a candidate like Mike Huckabee. It appeared he crashed their party with real Conservative blood and they didn't believe in him nor support him the way the grass roots people did. Reading "Doing the Right Thing" let me travel the road of the primaries all over again, with what I was seeing the first time. I really really appreciate the Mike Huckabee and his family.
I voted for Ross Perot, because I like his town meetings and the hand on representation. I like the idea of being heard and represented. I don't like all the buffers and special interest, foundations that control government.
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Donlon, Thomas
12/13/2009 09:57 AM
Let's see Deborah, how would Maurice Clemmons have been handled according to Biblical Old Testament law?
He would himself get a bump on his head causing equal injury (an eye for an eye - a tooth for a tooth) and then he would have had to pay fivefold or sevenfold on the $20.00 bucks that he took.
The blame for what Maurice did and got away with was not from how little he was punished for that crime, but from the many others that he later committed and was not properly, quickly and adequately punished for.
Those who let him violate his parole and did not prosecute him for his crimes are the ones that dropped the ball!
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Donlon, Thomas
12/13/2009 09:49 AM
Hi I just wanted to chime in on behalf of Glenn Beck.
His program has good news value as he covers issues and puts together disparate facts and helps people see what is going on - and shows us the background of some people in the current administration and reveals their influence on the president.
Morally, it seems that he has convictions and is willing to admit when he is wrong.
Stylistically, he is often charming and funny.
While I don't have time to do a deep analysis the best way to judge him is to watch him. His opinion of Mike Huckabee may not be the highest, but it may not be the lowest.
Now, a lot of my respect for Mike Huckabee comes from his grasp of issues that affect people and his sharp thinking. It does appear that he is very concerned about others.
However like Abe Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson, it isn't so much a rigid ideology that guides his thinking, but it seems an overall goal to do the best he can - not fretting about every detail.Glenn Beck is a great positive influence on the country. I think Mike is as well. Glenn has a gritty, gutsy ideological basis for doing good. He doesn't gravitate that much to Mike's willingness to take out the guitar and just have fun while also doing good.
While there are many talk show hosts who I think cynical thoughts about and are generally not worth listening to or watching - I deeply respect Glenn Beck. I am not bothered by his skepticism of Mike Huckabee and I respect it more than flattery. They may never be friends and Glenn is a good educator for why the government should not be using huge amounts of money in spastic attempts to fix problems sometimes of their own making.
It is now more necessary than ever for government to look for ways to cut the budget rather than to look for how to "spend money in order to save money". And that is probably a lesson many in the country need to learn. Mike's natural frugality in his last campaign would be beneficial if applied to the country. Just his ideas on vitamin d - but I doubt Glenn Beck has the courage or wisdom to go down that road .
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Judge Deborah
12/12/2009 11:31 PM
Maxine:
I thought I read that this particular robber hit an old woman on the head and knocked her out when he robbed her.
A simple robbery would be holding a gun to someone and taking $20 from then and then leaving the scene of the crime.
But hitting an elderly lady on the head and causing her physical damage that could be permanent is quite a serious matter.
When I heard that part of the story it gave me great pause, regardless of how old the criminal is.
No, I don't supposed I'll ever understand racism, because when I was growing up in the 1950's we had a colored boy who was a foster child of another church family. Everyone treated him like he was one of our own families, so I grew up not seeing racism demonstrated at all in our quiet little town.
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Dr. David
12/12/2009 06:51 PM
Ron and Dottie in Fl 12/12/2009 03:02 PM. I read back through what Barbie said that I supported with which you might have taken issue, and conclude that it might be Glenn Beck. In thinking about Glenn Beck, I believe we must distinguish between the man, those who give him a platform to speak, and what he says.
First, my understanding is that Glenn Beck comes from a troubled background: his own mother committed suicide, and he is a recovering alcoholic. I do not judge him on that: we do not choose our parents, and Saul of Tarsus turned into St. Paul, so background is not definitive. However, it is a fact that he opposed Mike Huckabee's Presidential run. If he wanted to support Romney because both are Mormons, that would be OK with me, but he did not give that as his reason for condemning Huckabee.
Second, everyone knows saw how FOX News handled Mike's campaign last year. In general, they tried to pretend that he did not exist. FOX News seems to me to be a mouthpiece for the economic conservatives such as those at the Club for Growth who were willing to spend large amounts of money to defeat Huckabee. Doubtless, not everyone on the air at FOX News is involved in the editorial decisions, but some people you don't see on the air were, and they are part of the Washington to Wall Street axis that I would like to se annihilated for the good of the country. FOX News did offer Mike a job after the election, but my view is that they thought they could further discredit him as an "entertainer who was once a minister".
Finally, as far as the content of what Beck says is concerned, I know that Beck is an excitable person and is paid big bucks to emote on air, but I would need to see more of the content to decide whether the appeals to those of us (like me) who yearn for the good old days when traditional American values really meant something hide a more cynical agenda or not. I'll watch again and let you know what I think.
PS I wrote this after reading what you wrote, but before seeing Ben Dribus' reply. I find it hard to disagree with what Ben said.
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Ben Dribus
12/12/2009 05:51 PM
Ron and Dottie,
You write, "I am glad that Sarah Palin has a feed into the mainstream media."
You MUST consider WHY she has a feed into the mainstream media. It isn't something that "just happens."
Palin appearing on a television show last night is not worthy of headlines on every major news site. The only conclusion is that the main-stream media is DELIBERATELY PROMOTING HER!
WHY?
I think the answer is obvious. No one becomes unhealthy by eating dirt and cardboard and things that taste terrible. They become unhealthy by eating "junk food," which tastes sweet. Sarah Palin is "conservative junk food," fed to us so we won't be hungry for a nutritious meal.
I understand that the Fair Tax is one issue that is important to you. Sarah Palin is against it.
You write, "I really would like to see Mike Huckabee, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin pull their ideas together and hash out their differences, what ever they may be. For all I know they may already talk to one another."
I'm afraid not. Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck are some of Mike Huckabee's worst enemies.
Their differences are mutually exclusive, and cannot be hashed out. They will never be on the same side. One will win and the others will lose.
Mike Huckabee represents friendly, open-minded, solution-oriented conservative governance.
Sarah Palin represents harsh, suspicious, narrow-minded traditionalism and anti-intellectualism wedded to personal ambition.
Glenn Beck represents big-money interests and a minority religion (Mormonism). During the last election, he took the side of Wall-Street supported, pro-abortion, socialized medicine and bailout-supporting Mitt Romney and compared Mike Huckabee to the devil. He is a liar, and what he has said since is a smoke screen to deceive you.
These are the facts. No reconcilliation is possible unless they admit their mistakes and give up their agendas. If one or both of them win, we lose.
You are among of the best and most faithful contributors to this site, and, I imagine, a pillar of the conservative movement in your community. My intention is not to criticize, but I think a clear view on this subject is crucial. If I'm wrong, you will be wise enough to ignore what I say.
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Captain Obvious
12/12/2009 04:54 PM
I've posted this on another blog or two here-please pardon the duplication if this was one of them!
A one-time Huck basher who now supports him has an article in pajamas media's e-mail for today. Please read it and post a response..some of the comments show a complete ignorance of the facts (and appear not even to have read the article--were such a thing possible....
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/four-errors-in-the-war-against-huckabee/
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Captain Obvious
12/12/2009 04:24 PM
Juliee and Brian--
I did too.
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Captain Obvious
12/12/2009 04:24 PM
Ron and Dottie--
I also don't intend to read "Going Rouge"--it is a mockery of Sarah Palin's "Going Rogue", which I read and enjoyed.
Have heard that certain large chain bookstores have large displays of the liberal knock-off in the front of the store, while the original is hidden away in the back.
Big surprise, that.
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Ron and Dottie in Fl
12/12/2009 03:02 PM
To Doctor David and Barbie,
Like Doctor David suggested, I went back and read the comments made by Barbie. I agree with some and disagree with others.
We are all unique. We have grown to who we are. After reading "A Simple Christmas" by Mike Huckabee and "The Christmas Sweater" by Glenn Beck, I understand a little bit more where both of these men have come from. I appreciate both of these men are communicating to us in their own way.I have not read "Going Rouge" and I probably won't. I am seeing the good person that Sarah Palin is. I have watched her interviews. She does things a little bit differently than a lot of others. I appreciate the fact she speaks out on subjects like drilling for oil and many of the other problems that are wrong with our government and its people.
I am glad that Sarah Palin has a feed into the mainstream media.
A lot of what is said on Fox News and Conservative radio does not make it to mainstream media. If it does, it comes across as in significant.
I really would like to see Mike Huckabee, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin pull their ideas together and hash out their differences, what ever they may be. For all I know they may already talk to one another.
I am going to continue to keep up with Mike Huckabee and his shows. I am also going to watch the Glenn Beck Fox News show.
I will listen up for the next Tea Party event and may join in. I will also continue to support the Fair Tax and I have signed up on FairTaxNation.
I hope we keep tabs on our Congreesional leaders voting records / actions and the ones that continue to settle on pork in their bills.
Our country is headed down an unknown path and we need people who have the publics ear to speak out and hopefully get the attention of the ones with their heads in the sand. Hopefully / Payfully we have a ship which will weather this storm we are in.
The things 'Politically correct, bills giving exceptions to select few, and being able to opt out of something as simple as school uniforms sets us up, for running aground. We need Common Sense solutions to our problems in government, which are sadly lacking in current bills being ramed through Congress.
I hope Sarah Palin continues to speak out every chance she gets. Our Congressioan Leaders need to do the same. I believe every time our Representatives are voting on legislation, they need to get on public broadcasting / news media and tell their constituents why. Merely casting a vote, does not get it. They need to do their job and be representative of the people not Pelosi or Reid. When our leaders speak to the people they may see the error in their reasoning, possibly.
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JULIEE 4 HUCKABEE, CA
12/12/2009 02:46 PM
Brian Snow
12/11/2009 12:31 PMI contacted my senators!
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mxnwilson
12/12/2009 02:38 PM
Deborah--
Thanks so much for your interesting response! I suppose many have questioned why a judge would give that sentence to a juvenile.
Gov. Huckabee has actually given the answer to this in several interviews--it is one that we white Americans really do not want to admit, but here in the south, yes racism is still alive and well.
Please keep in mind that Arkansas is one of the states whose Governor stood in the doorway of a college to prevent an African American from entering the school.
In my opinion, we have made a lot of progress in this area, but obviously not as much as we would like to think.
If there was another reason why this judge handed down this sentence, I'm sure Gov. Huckabee weighed all the factors of the case when he decided to commute this sentence, and I'm also sure the naysayers would have already checked it out with a fine tooth comb and revealed it.
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Captain Obvious
12/12/2009 11:03 AM
Just a note--
Jack Edge, your comments were well stated and definitely well worth reading.
However, please be aware some readers may have missed part of what you communicated so articulately because it came in the form of a such a large block of text.
Even avid readers in today's frenetic world may skip right over gems of wisdom if they come in too large a package.
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Ben Dribus
12/12/2009 02:57 AM
Thomas,
Thanks for the encouragement and concern. I am hanging in there. It's good to see you here; I have missed your posts of late. You are one of the many who make visiting this site an educational experience.
*********************
All,
On the subject of clemency, I think that whether a person is tough/lax on crime is probably not the best way to think about the problem. Just as Mike Huckabee points out that we have a health problem, not a health care problem, I would say that we have a violence problem, not a law-enforcement problem. Law enforcement steps in only when things have already gone terribly wrong. Broken families, poverty, immoral media influence, drug use, and poor mental-health care are just a few influences contributing to the problem. People have personal responsibility and must be held accountable for their actions, but "preemptive justice," which is basically what a life term for a teenager convicted of nonviolent crimes amounts to, is really no better morally than eugenics. It isn't justice at all.
*********************
As Brian reminds us, this is crunch time for the health bill. Whatever position you take on this issue, it's important not to be lulled to sleep by the tiresome debate or other issues.
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Ron and Dottie in Fl
12/11/2009 11:17 PM
To All,
To all,
The following are comments I sent to Senator Bill Nelson of FloridaWho can we trust to do the right thing?
I am watching and I don't understand this Party line voting, especially in the Senate.
I look at "Global Warming". I don't believe it for one minute and I bet you cannot give me any real facts, other than Al Gore will benefit from it greatly. This "Cap and Trade" and the Treaty in Copenhagen, will cost us even more jobs, individual extra expenses, a 1 or 2 percent of our GDP, which if nothing else, should go to paying off the money we are borrowing from China.
Please step back and take a hard look at our government. Is that direction you really want us to go.
Currently with a 12 Trillion dollar debt, implementing the Fair Tax would even be a long road to go. Please if you get a chance pick up and read The Fair Tax Book, it is only 167 pages, just to see what you really think about the Fair Tax. This Whirl wind which is currently going on, is scary. Remember, "Haste does make Waste".
This same kind of thing happened back in 2000, where The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 got passed, it was embedded in an Agricultural Bill, that got passed at the end of the session. 60 minutes had a segment on it in Oct 2008. What it amounted to, is it reversed legislation that was passed in the early 1900's to protect our economy from crashing. The legislation S.2697 embedded in H.R.4541 has yet to be addressed. I don't understand, why not. Have you heard of Bucket Shops?
Another thing, snapper fishing is being closed all along the South Atlantic Coast (from North Carolina to South Florida. This will be more jobs lost and a tremendous domino effect. I attended the meeting in Jacksonville and listened to everyone of the speakers in 1 out 3 rooms. Speakers(divers, charter boat captains, owners of tackle and bait shops and others) were back to back for 4 hours. "Everyone" of them said current limits / regulations are working. Snapper fishing does not have to be closed and this has been the best 2 or 3 years of fishing.
Then I hear Snapper fishing could be closed as early as 4 Jan 2010. Snapper fishing is being regulated by agencies within the Secretary of Commerce. It appears the people responsible for gathering data did not have the resources to do their job, and from what I am hearing are able to cause the closing of the snapper fishery, even though they were irresponsible. Surely you have heard about the possible closing of the snapper fishery. I also hear people within the Pew Foundation could have influence on the decision, with their 30,000 signatures petition.
Irresponsibility seem to be a key word in government agencies lately.
Do you really believe the estimate the CBO is coming up with for Universal Health Care, I don’t. Please step back and take a look at everything that is going on.
I agree there needs to be reform. Lets take the time to correct problems with the current system. Work on Tort reform. Work on problems with people not getting care because of preexisting conditions or exceeding limits. Work on some of the other problems that need to be addressed. Work on fraud, abuse, and waste of the current systems.
Don’t make deals behind closed doors. You Represent the people of Florida. Please work with and open communication with Senator George S. LeMieux.
I am a supporter of the Fair Tax and I am joining the Tea Party group and could change over to an Independent. The one thing I like about the Republicans, they are slowing the Speaker Pelosi / Senator Reid movement down. Please slow it down and think of some of the things I have written. I don’t think I am asking too much of my Senator.
One other request. Please don’t send me some canned reply as you have in the past.
Thank you for taking the time to step back from what appears to me to be Democratic agenda, that is taking away our Freedom and Liberty away from us one step at a time.Thanks again for taking the time to read and hopefully give back a thoughtful reply,
Just a concerned American Citizen and a Resident of FloridaFYI the open discussion thread is. Just click on blog and page down to 30 Nov.
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Judge Deborah
12/11/2009 10:12 PM
Maxine and Captain Obvious: Your points are well taken, but I still wonder why a minor would have been sentenced to 100 years.
You don't normally get sentenced to 100 years for theft unless you've committed some heinous, unspeakable crime.
A 100 year sentence is clearly meant to put someone away for life.
Even if an axe murderer repents and says they've found Jesus, it doesn't necessarily mean it is safe to unlock them and let them loose.
I think the jury heard all the evidence of the case, made their decision and wise judgment was handed down.
Again, I don't blame Gov. Huckabee for the whole situation, but I do feel that our justice system is way too lenient, and that's why there is no fear for our young people to keep them on the straight and narrow path.
There apparently are many facts to this case that are not in the open, and I highly doubt that a young man was sentenced 100 years for just petty theft.
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JULIEE 4 HUCKABEE, CA
12/11/2009 03:31 PM
Jack Edge, Captain Obvious, Maxine, Barbie, Sunny
Very thoughtful and well-articulated comments!
The good news is that all of the "Huckabee bashing" has not hurt him in the polls. In fact his numbers are rising!
Those who seek the truth, will find it! Anyone who truly studies the facts of the Clemmons case and the basis for Gov. Huckabee's clemency decision, would accurately assess that he did "Do the Right Thing"!
Anyone who "judges" correctly needs to do so based on the facts, the truth, and a pure heart. Those who are "judgmental", make judgments which "lack tolerance, compassion, and objectivity". I would also add, that those who are "judgmental" generally don't care about the truth. Their attitudes and words stem from a self-serving need and purpose!
HUCKABEE, 2012!!!
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Talk, Frank
12/11/2009 03:09 PM
Yet another poll showing the public turning sharply against the health care bill. Fox: 34% for, 57% against.
The more the public learns about the bill, the more they turn against it.
How can Blanche Lincoln vote for this bill?
Mike Huckabee needs to make Arkansas voters aware of what's going on.
Here's a list of all the latest health care polls.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html -
Dr. David
12/11/2009 01:18 PM
edge, jack 12/11/2009 09:52 AM. Well stated!
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Dr. David
12/11/2009 01:13 PM
I hope readers will see the message by Barbie 2/10/2009 05:06 PM. It contains an excellent character analysis of Sarah Palin and many wise thoughts that are appropriate for us all to remember. I couldn't agree more.
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BDS
12/11/2009 12:31 PM
Raise your hand
if you have contacted a Senator to express opposition to the Health Care Abomination bill.
Senate contact info: http://www.senate.gov/
Please have a look at my recent letter to Senator McConnell: http://my.huckpac.com/?Fuseaction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=2916
One of my grandfathers dropped bombs through the flak and hellfires of Ploesti, Romania, and my other grandfather fought Zeroes over the jungles of New Guinea, for their country, for Liberty. The least I can do for Liberty is to send faxes to a few senators. How about you?
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mxnwilson
12/11/2009 12:05 PM
Deborah--
I appreciate your efforts in defending Sarah Palin from "bashing", but I'm not so sure you have all the facts of this situation.
It is impossible to paint all criminals with one paint brush, and say they all should remain in jail. The laws of our land and our judiciary system are sometimes unbalanced and unfair, thus the reason for other authorities to intervene with the information they have in these cases.
Unless there are other facts of which I am not aware, Maurice Clemmons had not committed murder at the time of Gov. Huckabee's decision to commute this sentence, and I am wondering if SP was aware of these facts before making this statement.
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Captain Obvious
12/11/2009 10:07 AM
Deborah,
I must respectfully disagree with your comment (12/1/09; 8:08 am)
In the case of a teenager sentenced to more than 100 years for theft we have an injustice that should be corrected. Commuting the sentence to forty-some years, allowing the possibility of parole is not the same as pardoning his crimes. The ability of a sitting Governor to "do the right thing" is a needed balance to a justice system marred by inevitable human imperfection.
As Governor Huckabee points out, the politically astute stance for a governor to take would be to deny all motions for clemency. The right one is to carefully and prayerfully consider each case and take appropriate action.
Barbie--your commentary on Governor Palin is well considered. I hope she takes note of James 1:19-20 and reconsiders her associations. Angry, scornful, mocking conservatives have lost my attention and respect almost to the same degree as the MSM.
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edge, jack
12/11/2009 09:52 AM
It occurs to me that one of the things that makes our system of governance unique and wonderful are checks and balances. Our founders realized that no single decision could be considered as the final solution with no method of review. If that were the case we would need no appeal system or even the supreme court. One of a Governors responsibilities is to serve as one of those checks and balances. Gov Huckabee said he reviewed every file (in an arduous number of cases I mite add.) But this was one of his responsibilities as a concientious leader. Are we to believe that no jury or judge for any given reason could falsely accuse someone or give out an undue sentence. Imagine if you were imprisoned or had family in prison in a state where the Gov. had already said that if a judge and jury had convicted someone who am I to over rule that judgement. Who are you? you are the check and balance. It's your job to take the time and look over a request and make sure that something hasn't been missed it is your responsibility to make sure that a person recieves their rights, that means every person. The expedient Governor just doesn't even consider it. The Governor that cares about his responsibilities takes the time and the risks to do his job! I beleieve that out of this horrific tragedy which unfortunately will now probably make many governors fearful to do their job for fear of future ramifications we can see that Mike Huckabee was not afraid to do his and takes responsibility for what happened as a decision he regrets knowing what he knows now. However we can not expect every Governor or judge or jury to be responsible for every future action made by an individual that they made a decision on. Furthermore, regarding Sarah Palin's comments is it disingenuous and self serving to say you love someone as you stick a knife in their back? ..you betcha!
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Judge Deborah
12/11/2009 09:21 AM
If we know that Judges are going to be too lenient, then why are we defending pardons?
I realize a commutation of sentence is different than a pardon. And I understand God's mercy and grace.
But most Christians believe in the death penalty.
MADD -- Mothers Against Drunk Driving Moms want to protect their kids, not irresponsible people who can't control their drinking.
While I don't think Gov. Huckabee is completely to blame for any one situation, the overall American attitude toward crime is way too lax!
We need to tighten down the hatches!
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Donlon, Thomas
12/10/2009 07:26 PM
Ben Dribus,
I respect your intellect and good intentions - and I hope you have been doing well of late.
